Ready To Wait Vs Women’s Rights To Pray : Politics Peaks Over Sabarimala Verdict | People’s Court



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Ever since the Supreme Court threw open the gates of Sabarimala Temple of Kerala to all women last week, the state has witnessed protest by several outfits including groups of women. Politicians who earlier endorsed women’s entry to Sabarimala have conveniently changed their stands after widespread protests demanding an overturn of the Supreme Court order.

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44 Responses

  1. SaneeshMKM says:

    Why do you ask to rss.they don't have any role..the protest stared without any support of Rss or bjp..they have just joined later..and they are not playing any major role in this protest..Don't make this Protest Under Rss level. they are only devotees..Even if no political party is supported, this protest will definitely go forward

  2. SaneeshMKM says:

    A) The nature of the Ayyappa is that of someone who has renounced the proximity of a certain group of women. That is Ayyappa's nature manifested as per his own decision for himself. Let us keep in mind that Ayyappa is a male. A devotee who is not ignorant would understand that nature of Ayyappa and will honor it. A non-devotee would not feel the obligation to honor it. An ignorant devotee would be behaviorally similar to a non-devotee in this case. One must have knowledge of what to honor, and with what degree and priority. The exactness in that knowledge is what a devoted Thantri has.
    [The political aspect of anyone actively dishonoring Ayyappa's decision within a democracy manifests as an attack on Hindu beliefs. An ignorant Hindu can also contribute to this attack due to his/her lack of exactness in the understanding. Honoring of Ayyappa's nature is evident for humans largely through the recorded history, while Ayyappa's nature is part of widely accepted mythology. Now, why did Ayyappa decide his Naishtika Brahmacharya? Only he knows. There is no actual rationale to support it. There is no actual rationale to oppose it even. We are aware of only the god's decisions, not his mind & its mechanisms. One will have to oppose the idea of god itself to oppose Ayyappa's decision.]

    B) Would you like to challenge whether Ayyappa is male or not? Would you like to impose your own meaning of what Ayyappa's renunciation should look like? Would you want to impose the burden of another idea of celibacy (such as western idea of celibacy – 'no-marriage with no-sex')? Then, you are not the acknowledging the nature of Ayyappa in Sabarimala. You are fantasizing some other entity. Either you can try finding that entity you are looking for, or make your own new temple.
    [Note that it is often easy to get lost in translation. Celibacy in this context is most close to the idea of asceticism. Please be aware of meaning-loss in words/phrases elsewhere too. It is important to understand the conceptual-framework before deciding what to do with it.]

    C) Is Ayyappa sexist as per today's standards? Maybe. If you feel so, and feel very strongly against sexism, do not choose to be a devotee of Ayyappa. There are many other gods to show your devotion. Find a non-sexist one. Before that, maybe recheck your value-system which you use to conclude sexism in Ayyappa's nature. Ayyappa is considered a god and certainly far superior to any mortals. Your value-system would most probably be inapplicable for a god. Keep your mind open to the idea that the defect could be in the value-system which finds a god as sexist.
    [Holistically speaking, around 400 years of western colonialism has given Indians the benefit of western education but also the issues in the assumptions of the western value-systems. There have been mutations to our value-system much before that too. Even if many maintain the identity of Hindu, the default outlook of the past centuries is that of a remixed-Hinduism and not necessarily of a progressed-Hinduism. Hinduism inherently being a complex remix with a unified common substrate doesn't help with the confusion. And a remixed-substrate as a result of centuries has meddled with our value-judgements.]

    D) Aren't all Hindu gods the same? Shouldn't the nature of one temple be same as the other, let it be Kerala or Odisha? No. That is not how Hinduism is. While one must show aversion to practices that are clearly harmful, one must also identify practices that make our gods unique and preserve them. Hinduism acknowledges the 'form-less property-less omnipresent god' simultaneously with the numerous gods who has specific forms and mythology behind them. It sustains a plethora of god-based -isms such as polytheism, pantheism, monotheism, agnostic, atheism and even deism. One can be Hindu with or without the Vedas, or any such texts. Hinduism maintains the individual's opportunity to question anything.
    [That opportunity of the individual must not be conflated with the state's or any group's opportunity to remove any existing beliefs. A current system of democracy is a relatively newer mechanism which provides new kinds of opportunities which may not be about religion itself. One must use caution in identifying constructive opportunities. There is no formula for that discrimination power. One must analyze in detail without agenda. Let the agenda come from the analyses, and not prior to them.]

    E) "#RightToPray" is a misnomer and a distortion of facts. What fits exactly is "#RightToEnterSabarimalaForWomenOfCertainAgeGroup". If omission of information to make it short is desired, what fits approximately is "#RightToEnter". No one is denied from the act of praying itself. What is being prohibited is the entry to the temple when one is a woman of a certain age group. The lack of intellectual honesty makes discussions less meaningful.

    Now, let us look at the main TWO cases where most of the pro-entry arguing sides would fit:

    1) You do not believe in god as an independent entity from human imagination, or does not believe so specifically about Ayyappa:
    In this case, you rationally cannot demand to enter Sabarimala. You have no respectable objective to enter that place. Actually, you will have no interest in entering any religious place if you are an atheist. Stressing on tourism instead of devotion also makes you a non-believer. If you are in the role of an anti-theist, and if still you demand to enter, then you would be suspected of ill-intentions. If you claim that you are trying to speak for other devoted women, then you lack the basic requirement for representing them by not realizing the reason why they have the devotion. You already have an outlook that is incompatible with them. A devotee would reasonably place Ayyappa above constitution. You lack that perspective. So, the individuals under case-1 can have no rational argument to put forth regarding temple entry of devotees or themselves.
    [There is another argument that atheists and anti-theists can present, and it will be rational. That would be along the lines of totally removing any temple/worship from Sabarimala, and using that land well for state's productivity. Even though I might support such an argument, the ongoing discussion is not on that. Case-1-people will have to be #ready-to-wait for that kind of argument which opposes theism directly. There is some irony here.]

    2) You believe in Ayyappa being a god whose history and mythology is known:
    If you are such a devotee, then you are asking a genuine question about Sabarimala temple-entry regulations. The reply is this – if you are a genuine devotee of Ayyappa, then you will respect his decision of renunciation. You will act accordingly. The explanations are present mainly in {A,B,C} above. If you still have doubt, the knowledgeable person to ask is the Thantri who really knows about Ayyappa. Not the pseudo-intellectual and misinformed people who has no refined idea of Kerala & its mythologies. The following questions has the human tinge, but consider this – why would a god stay in a place where his decision is not respected by his devotees? To continue his vow of renunciation, wouldn't he have to move to another place where he can maintain his asceticism? What do the human ideas of sexism, patriarchy, left/right politics, communism, democracy, constitution etc. mean for a god?
    [Note that the human "ascetics/sages/swamis" of the present age follow their own adulterated version of asceticism. They have relatively mellow lives and are not qualified to comment on the nature of renunciation that Ayyappa keeps. Except for the Thantri no one else is eligible. Even Thantri cannot make any major changes. What makes Ayyappa 'Ayyappa' must be preserved.]

    *Disclaimer*: If anyone feels like showering abuse or telling nonsense as reply, please consider your words as reply for yourself. I am not a fan of silliness. I have put the effort to explain using as precise words as possible. Intelligent and coherent responses are welcome. Please note that I have made no mention of the nonsensical classifications of purity/impurity (It is a non-problem, a straw-man, a distortion of Ayyappa's stance on renunciation). I do not wish to turn this into a men-versus-women discussion. If Ayyappa was female and if she wanted to practice renunciation, then it could very well happen that no guys after reaching puberty can enter her temple. The importance of the temples are maintained also by their exclusivity.

  3. SaneeshMKM says:

    The people are Not Come with the influence of BJP or Rss..in kerala..they are joined with protest very later…Don't Say this protest was made by Rss..there is no influence of Rss in this protest..people are coming themselves

  4. SaneeshMKM says:

    Don't spread fake news..the people came to protest are not from any political parties..only ayyappa devotees protested first..rss and bjp join them very later..people are not come from with rss or bjp..Your news is totally misleading..
    Presence of bjp or rss are very low in Kerala..they can't influence Kerala people.. Protesters are pure ayyappadevotees

  5. DILEEP RRA says:

    Only north Indian welcomed, south Indian's opposed strongly.
    U north media misrepresented everything.

  6. Sooraj Km says:

    Brainless Nor….Indians, Save Sabarimala, Stupid Anchor Well said Deepa Congrats

  7. Latha Baradwaj says:

    Very good debate. Very well spoken by Brinda Adige.
    Gods do not need atheists when there are the so called "devotees" like Deepa who pulls him down to a pedestrian level. If that is the case are all these people fools to go there to have a darshan of an ordinary mortal who cannot control his feelings ? This is the biggest insult to Lord Ayyappa of whom I am a devotee.

  8. Shikhil Tp says:

    Deepa is just awesome

  9. Shayaan Bin says:

    Just 50 years not too much
    Wow

  10. police shekar says:

    I condemns protests because telling menstruation is reason it's not correct all are equal before law we must and should follow that

  11. pradheesh tp says:

    Ye matherchodh logh he dheepa

  12. Shiji Lenin says:

    Well done Deepa

  13. Latha Baradwaj says:

    Deepa, It would be nice if you applied a bindi like Brinda Adige if you are a married Hindu. (related to Rahul Easwar ?)

  14. DILEEP RRA says:

    Sabarimala verdict has to be reviewed

  15. Lakshmanan Venugopalan says:

    Shameless Brinda is only interested in attacking Hindu beliefs and not understanding ayappa devotees. Hats off to Deepa for very logical explanation and exposing feminist idiots.

  16. ultimate djsrj says:

    Whendid supreme court established??
    Overall Sabarimala is here from morethan 5000years ago and its tradition and rituals are pratcised from that time cannot be violated
    Wecannot accept that!!

  17. yoge ndran says:

    A psudeo journalist who have no brain… obnoxious…brainless senseless anchor

  18. Night Rain says:

    Janmabhumi lines translation in english is totally wrong. Bastard media

  19. Mohandas very nice Das says:

    Swami saranam

  20. Feeble Artrose says:

    These north people can inly see things with their own eyes .. no knowledge about culture and traditions.. they dont even have the common sense to know that the protest is not by any political part but by the normal people in that state.. these north media are very smart in portraying our kerala beliefs as against humanity and they do not even wish to listen to anything that is against what they want to hear. It is believed that mud from the courtyard of prostitutes and brought to make the murthi for durga pooja in kolkata.. WHY bcos durga maa said so?! no! it is a belef and has its own reasons to it.. why do we pray to lingas and not murthi of lord shiva? isnt it just a beleifs? why we put tulsi for lord vishnu but not other gods? why we symbolize bilva leaf for lord shiva only?!? These north people couldn’t even take care of their shani mandir .. and now portraying us keralites as villains?!? this is the cheep mentality of the media.. all are only one sided.. they had nothing to say when the SC made adultry decriminalize?!! so now anyone can sleep with anyone and no one will ask?!? what kind of bullshit is this?

  21. sachi sachi says:

    save sabarimala

  22. Monish Gattu says:

    Don't create North vs South controversy. Verdict came because our institutions guided by communist ideology ruling Indian people who follow different ethos. This is fundamental dilemma exists since adoption of Constitution

  23. i dont know who iam i says:

    deepa ji ……… excellent..

  24. aparna valiyakovil says:

    Most of the media's (majority run by foreign funds) aims to disrespect Hindu traditions .THis is not the case with our neighbouring countries for eg Pakistan . Nowadays media's are responsible for anti Hindus anti Muslim riots and spreading false news.More and more news channels and more debates on useless and vulnerable topics and spreading hatred among people .Anchors know only to speak good English ,knows nothing relevant about any topic keeps on talking stupidity not giving chance to guest and promotes anti-nationalist views .Indian media's works the same role of a terrorist .

  25. Sreeraj Newgen says:

    We not need any political parties we can fight alone . During #save sabarimala protest a eagle fly above the sky continuously it only fly during makara velaku days .But this time fly above protest show that ayappa is real truth no law can break his rules ,he is supporting ayappas real devotees .
    We not allow feminist or feminachi to make it a tourist spot.
    #we respect ayappa's rule above any other rule .

  26. Surya Aditya says:

    SC must respect hindus feeling. If this kind of evil verdict against hindus keep coming then the hindus somehow wil lost patient and if that happen then that is the end of kerala politics and ugly judges.

  27. RAJESH KALAPPURAKKAL says:

    REQUEST ALL NORTH INDIAN NEWS CHANELS, SEND YOUR ANCHORS TO 5 SOUTH INDIAN STATES FOR ONE YEAR TO KNOW WHAT IS SOUTH INDIA. THESE CONVENT EDUCATED DOLLS ONLY KNOWS NEW DELHI .

  28. RAJESH KALAPPURAKKAL says:

    BRING SOUTH INDIANS FOR SOUTH INDIANS RELATED TEMPLE ISSUES , YOU NORTH INDIANS NEVER KNOWS WHAT IS SOUTH INDIAN CULTURE, TEMPLE SYSTEMS. MOST PITY PART IS FOR ANY OPPOSITION VIEWS OF SABARIMALA YOU DELHI MEDIAS HAVE TO BRING NORTH INDIANS. IT IS PITY. BRINDA ADIGE IS A CHRISTIAN CONVERT, WHY SHE IS HERE ??

  29. sujesh cv says:

    Real devotte vs Fake devotte

  30. Subramanian T.P.V. says:

    No restriction for ladies
    Ladies are most respected and malikappuram
    No restriction on religion. If you want to go through 18 padi must hv iru mudi. That is all
    Age restriction for ladies followed from time memorial.

  31. Maheswar Gopinath says:

    Ayyappa devotees should stand together to protect the age old tradition followed in SABARIMALA SWAMIYE SHARANAM AYYAPPA

  32. Gourishankar Panicker says:

    Sabarimala Temple does not belong to the Vedic school of Hinduism rather it belongs to the Tantric school of Hinduism. The non-entry of women between the age group of 10 to 50 has nothing to do with the notion of menstruation or menstrual impurity. Lord Ayyappa, who is the presiding deity of Sabarimala is a Naishtik Brahmachari (which means eternal celibate). The rituals of this temple have been systematically prescribed in the book called "Bhootanatha Upakhyam". It is the will of the deity that is being preserved by the temple through the traditions it observes. If we cite the local history of Sabarimala, as found in the Bhoothanatha Upakhyam, it shows that there is a need to maintain extreme celibacy even in the rituals. It is equally important to note the fact that women "are allowed" in at three other Ayyappa temples in Kerala – Achankovil, Aryankavu and Kulathupuzha — where the deity is not considered a celibate and is depicted with wives. There are other temples in Kerala like "Mannarshala" where the Head Priest is a lady. In "Chakkulathukavu Temple" an annual ritual called ‘Naari Puja‘ is conducted in which the male priest washes the feet of women devotees fasting for 10 days on the first Friday of December. During ‘Naari Puja‘, only women are allowed to enter the temple. Exclusion is not discrimination, especially when the objective of the rule has nothing to do with misogyny or impurity because of menstruation. Since the practice is based completely on the celibate nature of the deity, it is an essential part of the temple’s fundamental charter of faith. Last but not the least, the notion of menstrual impurity doesn't exist in Hinduism, had that been the case, we wouldn't be worshipping Goddess Kamakhya in Assam which is famously known as the Bleeding Goddess.

  33. tr ranjith says:

    That north Indian woman don't know anything about ayyapa nor the customs of this particular temple.
    Even the anchor has less knowledge about Hinduism that reflects her questions, PLZ DO STUDY ABOUT THE RELEVANT TOPIC THAT YOU TALK INFRONT OF CAMERA because the women and men who are protesting against this SC verdit are not fools.
    And the last thing about Kerala, it is a 100% literate state and it gives un comparable equality to women as compare to other states in India, that is not because of any government actions but because of its culture and social structures.

    Jai hind

  34. Jithz_Walkthrough says:

    Please Deepa maam please dont attend these debates… what ever logic you speak they wont understand…. they are too brainless to understand….

  35. Suhas Unni says:

    Stop this non sense. Not all women protestors are into politics. So this is dirty media too.. My mother and grand mom protest too… To all fellow south indians.. We have to be untired to save south india

  36. George Indian says:

    I support Deepak Mishra s verdict on Shabarimala. It is absurd,ridiculous,inhuman act ,keeping woman away due to their natural biological process,we called MENSTRUATION. Do you know the very existence of human race simply depends on MENSTRUATION. Then how can a GOD can prohibit a woman visiting him at her Menses Period. Do you know, the very survival of a woman is totally depends on Lord Ayyappas Temple Visit.
    The primary reason of this controversy is ignorance. The culprit don't know the power of Indian Woman. Woman are most powerful at the period of MENSTRUATION. they are practicing, Karate, Kung fu ,Jimnastics and weight lifting at their Menstruation period. They run marathon in their period. Such a monstrous being is keeping away from a temple is not acceptable for Mr. Mishra.
    41 days of VRUT, means suspending all her daily routine or natural duties ,what make her happy,Like, upkeep of her family,making food, children's schooling, husband's various necessities,job,aged parents welfare and all other nonsense is not a problem for a woman. She will get maximum peace in this 41 days by abstaining from her daily duties. Lord Ayyappa fixed 18 years for rmaturity age of a woman much before Indian Law ,not a woman's first mestruation. People wait for 18 years for a marriage then.
    Moreover Lord Ayyappa is the only GOD in the world .Rest of all are meagre metal ,stone sculpture s.and it is not a problem for a woman climbing kimetres of steep hill on bare foot, especially at the period of Menstruation.
    Lord Ayyappa is providing Free home, Biriyani, paneer Tikka,Jaguar Car,and 15 pala in everyone s accounts who are visiting Shabarimala Temple. All these years Men's are receiving all these gifts. It's is a clear discrimination for woman.
    The temple is a symbol of Harmony. Any faith can visit the Temple. How can a Hindu devottee go for Mosque for prayer nearby. It is the tradition and rituals are the reason. India is going towards a Hindu Nation. The main hindrance in the way is kerala, just because of keralites education and culture they freely mingle with inter faiths. They are not killing a Muslim for their religion. They are not killing to save GOMATA. Why? Every hindu family Religiously visiting Ayyappa temple every year. If the tradition broken then ,Ayyappa importance will be reduced and people go for several Blind Beliefs. What the much needed thing for the trouble makers.
    Like 6 months Maternity leave for woman, who lost 30 lacs job opportunities,please destroy shabarimala faith for equality.

  37. Chitra O3 says:

    Stupid news chanel you all are just entertaining all this bitch you all are talking about women's right i think you all have not seen that Kerala women are against this all are ready to wait why not you guys its not a fun we are the believer of the aiyapa swami if you guys don't know the story of the god 1st know everything thn say

  38. Midhun Muralidharan says:

    India Today has no idea of the points Deepa put forward.And they are not willing to lend ears or understand.

    Everybody knows of the importance of Gender Equality and none of them protesting are for gender inequality.
    We are too much attached to Sabarimala ritual and the women of the age group being excluded and similarly for Attukal Temple Pongala there are men being excluded.That is the cultural diversity.

    See India is too complex a country with too many beliefs and cultures and beliefs region to region.That is the beauty.Accept it.
    There are temples of different rituals even in one small locality if you consider.
    Be it exclusion of certain group of people the dress you wear in the temple the things you worship,the people who are allowed inside and that is how Hinduism is.
    We dont have a unique prescribed text book all around India for Hinduism unlike Islam or Christianity to prove what we say is right.

  39. Vishnu R says:

    Pls dont waste your time in watching this kind of bull shits…there is no logic in these kind of debates.. If women want equality everywhere , then why ladies required reservation required in bus, train, special interest rate in bank etc… remove every thing….guys in country lots of other issues needs to really looking in to it. Pls focuz on those…

  40. sarvottam shenvi says:

    What absurd comment from anchor that "If you are like god" instead of naisthika brahmachari she says "bal Brahmachari". What the heck…

  41. jayanthan492 says:

    Anchor some questions you should ask the deity,

  42. Nithin says:

    The idol of ayyyan is entirely diff from other gods and godess.
    Lord Ayyappa, the state of sitting may be called Arddhasana, Yogapadasana or Yogarudha Siddhasana. This status of sitting reveals the mood of asceticism, the Tapobhava.
    Thats why Females who are at the age of physically sexualy active should not visit a sanyasi. Instead females are considered to b superior to males. Idol would need to get up from his position to bow . Thats y its also said that pregnant ladies after 7 months should not be allowed inside temple.. as a unborn foetus is above the god himself and so pure that the god would get up and bow the child and mother.
    Ayyans posture is so seated in the sreechakra,And the aura emitted from such an idol is very strong.. compared with other saparivara idols.
    These matters should also b taken into consideration before debating…

    ALSO PLS CHECK AYYAPPAS SITTING POSTURE

    http://www.ayyappaseva.org/blog/an-insight-into-lord-ayyappa-s-sitting-posture

    As of now i under stand that there is not enough knowledge about sabarimala history for northern regions of india. please try to study the deity of sabarimala instead making a gender equality issue.

  43. Raam Shankar says:

    We need to respect the nature of the deity. How many times we need to explain you dear friends…?

  44. midhun S Kartha says:

    Sabarimala not A tourist place northi

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