Do An Ethics Roll! — Indie-Fensible (#GamerGate)

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Welcome back to Indie-Fensible, SFBros! Sorry it took for fucking ever to get this one out! CameraLady decides to investigate Triple-A corruption… and, surprise surprise, it ends up tying BACK into the indie scene!

Please be sure to subscribe and check out some of our other videos, we do a lot beyond #gamergate, including anime reviews and let’s plays! We upload new videos every day!



Jay Allen’s Dumb Tweets –

Master Of Play –

David auerbach’s Tweetlonger –

The Fallout of the Kane & Lynch Debacle –

Jeff Gerstmann (Finally) Talks About GameSpot Firing –

Mighty No. 9 – A lesson in how not to manage a community –

Shenmue 3 Announcement –

Shenmue 3 kickstarter –

Bitsummit Rising Japan’s Indie Ambassador –

Bitsummit 2014 Attendance and Award winners –

Q-Games Wikipedia article –

Internet Wayback Machine of Vitei –

Jake Kazdal Speaks –

Funktronic Labs –

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35 Responses

  1. Heiankyo Alien says:

    It's really not that unusual for indie devs to have worked at other companies previously

  2. Ookami otaku says:

    note no Japanese people but lots of westerns

  3. Morten Hilker-Skaaning says:

    What's the obsession about "what is indie"? It usually means "not owned by a publisher", in which case the mentioned companies are indie. What does the answer to "what is indie" mean to the discussion about game quality anyways?

    What's the obsession about show awards? You can make your own show and make your own awards! Are any awards more "real" than others?

    Companies that won the awards were actually at the show, showing off their games. What else would you require from contestants? The games were interesting and well executed, isn't that what awards should go to?

  4. valcaron says:


  5. LVX156 says:

    I think you missed the mark on the Shenmue III/Kickstarter thing. In all likelihood, it was used by Sony to gauge interest in the game, to then decide how much money they were going to spend on it. I don't see anything wrong with this at all.

  6. Calbeck says:

    I'll correct one major problem with this video: GG isn't about going after developers, large or small.

    Even in its earliest stages, the kerfuffle was between people critical of both Quinn AND Grayson, and Kotaku playing the white-knight for both of them.  When the knight pulled out the SocJus Sword ("misogyny!"), that's when things got ugly.  And most of what rancor there was against Quinn was redirected at Kotaku — until Quinn began actively trying to make the whole thing about herself (which outfits like Kotaku then enabled).  Even then, most of GG remained focused on Kotaku and Company.

    There's a much more practical concern to take into account here, though: even if GG wanted to go after developers, they have few avenues to do so beyond boycotts.  They can't buy out any developers, not even small ones, even assuming they would allow themselves to be purchased.  Developers don't rely on ad revenue or any other such thing.  And most of what the developers do isn't actually illegal, even when it's unethical.

    Conversely, gamers ARE able to impact the journalistic field by depriving outfits of ad revenue (email campaigns, adblockers, etc), as well as by supporting and creating alternatives to compete for market share against the Big Bads.

    So it's both a matter of focus and practicality.

  7. TheCybercoco says:

    I'm not convinced that developers striking it on their own and keeping their connections makes them "not an indie" developer. Now if Nintendo was actually investing in these development studios, then you'd have a case. It seems that Q Games and Vitei might be guilty of this. Is there evidence that Nintendo has been backing the other studios?

  8. LordKamina2 says:

    I think we just found a pet project to get into japan's media. what have we learned about anyone who says their on a moral high horse and preach against something? they almost always do it themselves. and what have we learned with the indie scenes in gaming and SJW, that indie are often SJWs.
    we need to make allies in japan create a GG presence on 2chan and get them copies of Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals" (we'll obviously need to translate it). It'll bolster our numbers, they'll be able to fight the battles we can't there.
    this is a battle we need to fight.

  9. David Coyles says:

    if you are courting a group who are all about "ethics in journalism" what on earth does it say that you make an entirely false claim about D.Cuthberts marriage to MAIYAMOTOs daughter? As i have said before – this entire video is devoid of facts and entirely conjecture and nonsense. IF you can't get any facts right then you are ultimate everything you claim to hate. This video is nonsense. Utter utter nonsense.

  10. Jon-David Walsh says:

    "and they eventually realized to cut out the Doritos nonsense, even if a bit too late" –   WTF is "the Doritos nonsense"?

  11. Craig McPherson says:

    Regarding the AAA game industry, the corruption is right in front of our faces.  If there is an advertisement for a game on a video game website, that's a conflict of interest right there.  Razorfist has been doing videos about this long before Gamergate.  He pointed out one instance of Microsoft "bribing" the entire E3 audience with new Xbox360's.  It'll be nearly impossible to prove, but "reviewers" must "be nice" regarding AAA game reviews if they want the publisher to send them an early review copy for the next big game.  In short, any time money or favors are exchanged between journalist and publisher, there is a breach of ethics.  The way a video game website operates will have to change radically to be 100% ethical.

    Regarding the "what is" and "what is not" indie, I don't blame you for others disagreeing with you.  There is no official definition of the word.  Games like Valiant Hearts and Mark of the Ninja have indie as tags on Steam.  The former is published by Ubisoft, the latter is published by Microsoft.

  12. Yazuki Wolf says:

    I just got back from attending BitSummit and met numerous teams of two to three Japanese indy devs who are having their games published by larger companies. 

    The indy scene here is growing, but is still very delicate. It needs support and promotion from larger companies to survive. You do realize that this is only the 3rd BitSummit, and Tokyo`s indie fest just started this year. If companies with money can`t help support these events the indy scene will never be more than some after school clubs that Japanese students attend during university only to give up on the moment they get hired to their official salary-man jobs.

    Also, I work full time at a mobile gaming company but also spend my weekends developing my own personal projects. Would you discredit my personal work as not being indy simply because I have connections to non-indy studios?

  13. Austin says:

    Yeah it's kind of stupid to not call those companies indie, indie has nothing to do with anything but the amount of money goes into the game and the resources, complaining that these people still know people in the AAA doesn't make them not indie, it's just stupid to suggest otherwise, the rest of the video is good.

    Just because they know or came from AAA doesn't mean they are AAA, they don't have the budget, they don't have the name, they have the experience but being indie doesn't mean you have to be clueless, it makes it look like your just looking for reasons to hate on these people, just saying. The thing about them receiving their own reward is a good point but the rest is nonsense

  14. aldershot8008 says:

    Nice video glad you're back!
    I find the Americans winning Japanese indie awards very suspect, I didn't even know about them until now.

    My only minor gripe I have with the video is, the common misuse of "indie". Indie games just means independently produced. No publisher involved. That means a person with a professional or wealthy background can very much still be considered indie, as long as there is no publisher involved. 

    I understand the common confusion, as these days most people think low budget, garage developer. With that bias in mind, I can understand why it's common to suspect professionals or the wealthy being under the label.

    I know I know, I'm just being anal with semantics. But in this context, understanding the indie label's broader definition I think will ease suspicion of misdoings where there might not be.

    Regardless of that, I understand the point the video was making and agree with it.

    Keep it up.

  15. cormano64 says:

    Your pronunciation of Miyamoto's name is #triggering me… and yet at 11:19 you say it correctly. You might have hope yet, man!

    But great video, well done research. 🙂

  16. vvlmm says:

    There is a lot of corruption, because there is a lot of money to be made. Do you know how much money, AAA spend on Marketing, it is a common practice to spend about the same value of the development on marketing, for instance: GTA V spent 137 millions on development and 128 millions on marketing. What I mean, for the AAA developers it is very easy to pay a few thousand dollars to journalists speak well of their game or to Youtubers to praise their game. For them it is a change, but for the individual person it is a lot of money. Everyone on the games press want a hand on this pot.

  17. Ghostly Noodle says:

    +ShortFatOtaku hello what system are you playing these games on?

  18. BTG514 says:

    Yeah, after the Kane and Lynch debacle I never went back to gamespot.

  19. Ignignokt The Mooninite says:

    I'm not your buddy, guy!

  20. heyou2424 says:

    What is this? A video for ants?

  21. ApesAmongUs says:

    Not that I disagree with anything you said, but let me offer another possible reasoning behind GG attacking indies over AAA.
    With origins like 4chan v, many of the GGers were not AAA customers in the first place.  I mean, being gamers, most have a game or 2 made by the big boys, but the stereotypical GGers doesn't own every CoD edition or Madden 20-whogivesafuck.
    From any casual survey of GGers, they are more likely to be playing indie games (especially things like rogue-likes).
    So AAA games were already the "other" – that's what "they" do, so of course they are bad.  The news of indie corruption hit closer to home.  It was personal to people in the same way that the "Gamers are Dead" articles acted as a catalyst for many people.  This corruption wasn't influencing iphone games and the newly shat-out movie franchise game of the summer, but instead it was happening in places where many future GGers were the primary customer base.  And having nowhere left to retreat to, were left no choice but to fight back.

  22. Yall says:

    I rather have one very well researched indiefensible video per month than tons of it with bogus, unconfirmed info per week.

  23. Khanh Pham says:

    Just a suggestion in the future to set the Patreon to "per video" towards Indie-Fensible.  That way funders dont have to be charged on the lack of releases of the video.  I really enjoy these videos because I have been concerning about the industry.

  24. Dr. Jimes Tooper says:

    It's pretty funny that businesses can use NDA's in order to hide corrupt practices. That's fucking great.

  25. artman40 says:

    What would Seamus McNally say if he was alive after seeing all this?
    Or were things bad even during TreadMarks era?

  26. The Emo Emu says:

    Awesome video!

  27. Nameless Assyrian says:

    AAA publishers are not journalist.

  28. Action Points says:

    This is something I've been saying for years. The readily available examples of triple A corruption usually happens with sloppy PR people, such as PR people dating members of the press and as such is a conflict of interest for the media. Since we lack those ties for privileged information the most effective way is to learn the information is to find the people that have been burned by the AAA and want to tell their side. This was the case with Dyack.

  29. Durakken says:

    Shenmue 3 is not being funded by Sony. This a misrepresentation of what was said. I don't even care about Shenmue and I know everything you said with regards to Shenmue and the kickstarter is wrong. What Sony is funding is the port of the game to PS4 and the advertisement once it is made NOT the development of the game. Please go watch… /watch?v=Idw_IQx2L0g for just how much bunk what you said is with regards of to Shenmue stuff

  30. Dudleyville says:

    The who funding of Shenmue III was explained by Adam Boyes.  He said that the kickstarter was basically a way to make sure that there was tangible interest in the game outside of the hashtag of "#buildingthelist" on twitter.  He went on to say that if they would go about trying to drum up and prove interest and funding traditionally, it would take another few years to gather all the appropriate data and show it to the people of Sony.  This was a way, in his explanation, of getting the game to the public faster.  Yu Suzuki said he also wanted the fans along for the development ride.  This is just a summation of what they said, but I think it helps add clarity, whether you still agree with the way they did it or not.

  31. myasshole69 says:

    More Shenmue 3 misinformation.
    Adam Koralik and Happy Console Gamer explain this.
    Sony isnt giving the money, the budget thing is a myth and more misinformation.
    What so ever liking the conspiracy theory over Shenmue 3, that information that debunk it is better for the views.
    And yes i am Gamer Gater, but i am getting sick and tired that the Gamer Gate is going IGN on Shenmue 3.

  32. Matias says:

    Sigh. Welp shits shit all over. Welp, we've got to contact whoever we know across the pacific. Let em know we've got their back. With how many hikkies, otaku, and other misc. shut ins over there we should be able to at least get some boots on the ground.

  33. Neowarden says:

    And is there a indie festival that isnt loaded?

  34. GEhotpants101 says:

    It might be something that the rest of GamerGate won't look into, but I will look into AAA corruption, at least. I will bring AAA corruption to the attention to GamerGate, what ever that means.

  35. Tio H says:

    The 70 million figure for shenmue was advertising buzz. In reality, it was 37 million, and that was used to fund Shenmue 1, 2, and the half of 3 they managed to cobble together before getting dissolved.

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